Written, Produced, Directed by Samuel Fuller
Starring Barbara Stanwyck, Barry Sullivan, Dean Jagger, John Ericson, Gene Barry, Robert Dix, Hank Worden
We all want to do our part to boost international trade. And here’s an easy way to do it. Samuel Fuller’s Forty Guns (1957) will come riding onto Blu-ray in June, thanks to the folks at Eureka Entertainment in the UK.
I don’t know what you think of this crazy thing, but I love it. It’s a big sweeping epic on one hand and a glorified Regalscope picture on the other. It’s got everything we expect from a Sam Fuller movie. And it has one of the damnedest opening sequences I’ve ever seen. I’d love to see it on a big curved CinemaScope screen — which I’m sure some of you have experienced.
It’s a Blu-ray/DVD combo, part of their Masters Of Cinema series, with an audio interview with Fuller among its extras. But who needs extras when you get Joseph Biroc’s incredible black and white ‘Scope photography in high definition?
A tech question: I have an all-region DVD player so Region 2 DVDs are not an issue for me.
I’ve only been dabbling in Blu-rays a fairly short time. I’m assuming that an all-region Blu-ray player is required to play Blu-rays from the UK? I see there are such players listed at Amazon so that’s probably the case, but if anyone with practical experience can confirm this for me I’d appreciate it.
Best wishes,
Laura
That’s a great topic, Laura. I’m a little vague on that myself. And since I just got a second Blu-ray player, I’ve been wondering what I can and cannot play. Any techies out there?
Hi Laura: You would definitely need a multi-region Blu-ray player and I would highly recommend any Oppo player. I believe such luminaries as the guy who
runs DVD Beaver uses an Oppo for his reviews.
Hi Nick Beal, Thanks much for the confirmation and the product recommendation, I’ll be looking into this in the future. 🙂
Best wishes,
Laura
More welcome western news in the UK today – Arrow are releasing what looks like the definitive HD edition of My Darling Clementine in August.
http://www.arrowfilms.co.uk/shop/index.php?route=product/product&keyword=my%20dar&product_id=558
” Forty guns” (40 tueurs) est un de mes westerns préférés, malgré une fin ridicule imposée à Samuel Fuller, Barbara Stanwyck courant derrière Sullivan en criant ” Griff, Griff “, c’est à mourir de rire. L’ouverture du film était d’un tout autre niveau. Le film sort en dvd Blu-ray le 27 mai en France, ainsi que le splendide ” 3 : 10 to Yuma” (3h10 pour Yuma) de Daves.
Colin;
It seems every time you post something these days it means
more expense! Nevertheless as gcew1 said recently…you can’t
take it with you……I certainly won’t.
I’m off line for a few days and I’ve got a load of stuff to watch.
My latest Oldies parcel arrived in just over a week which I certainly
was not expecting.
This time it’s a load of Warner Archive goodies:BLACK GOLD (Quinn)
SON OF BELLE STARR,ARROW IN THE DUST,THE HIRED GUN and
BLACK PATCH.
I will report on these later.
I’m still getting through THE DAKOTAS which is getting better and
better.
I posted a comment on the Archive’s Facebook page regarding
the great Allied Artists titles that they don’t own:
JACK SLADE,RETURN OF JACK SLADE,AT GUNPOINT,LAST OF
THE BADMEN,THE TALL STRANGER,DRAGOON WELLS MASSACRE.
Here is Warner’s reply for those interested:
“We have a multitude of unreleased Allied Artists releases planned
for remastering. There are no plans to acquire rights to films that are
not part of our library. Happily our hands are full and so are our vaults”
Well it’s good to know I guess we will have to make do with any
off air copies of the above films..I really cannot see them surfacing
anywhere else except in Germany with German only soundtracks.
Thanks for all this interesting info, John!
I just reviewed BLACK PATCH; thought it started out great but then went seriously off track. Would love to know your take on it, as well as thoughts from others here.
Best wishes,
Laura
I like George Montgomery and read that Black Patch was supposed to be a good one. So I took a chance and got the DVD that was commercially available from “Televista” (before the Warner Archive release). The quality was not all that great, kinda bad, in fact, BUT that’s 2nd compared to how disappointed I was with this movie. It reminded me of the horrible spaghetti westerns I dislike so much. Everyone except for Montgomery’s character in this movie was a dirty low-life. Even Montgomery wasn’t all that great. It was a movie filled with low-lifes doing low life things. I don’t remeber too much from this movie, only my reaction I found it to be totally repugnant as I do 99% of all spaghetti and taco westerns. The stars were what drew me in, (Sebestian Cabot, Leo Gordon, Diane Brewster, how bad could it be?) little did I realize they would all be participating in such trash. This was a film like the kind you’d see 10 years later, the kind of western I don’t watch. Westerns from the late ’40’s thru the early ’60’s are my kind of westerns. This one was from 1957 but could easily have been filmed in ’67 it was so bad.
I know there are some out there who seem to love the foreign westerns, please don’t extoll what you see as their virtues to me. I’m not interested, like what you will, and please allow me the same privilege.
Hi Johnny. I’m just a little confused by some of your comments on BLACK PATCH in the light of your reactions to COW COUNTRY. I haven’t gotten to see BLACK PATCH yet but you seem to be comparing it to Spaghetti Westerns (and possibly post 1965 Westerns in general) which you evidently loath. I would agree that possibly there is nothing worse than a bad Spaghetti
Western – atrocious dubbing, inane plots and characters who really do look
as though they’re from Naples rather than Natchez – but no serious student
of the Western would deny that there are genuine masterpieces in a genre
which helped to keep the Western alive and kicking when Stateside it was
in sharp decline. You then bemoan the moral relativism of BLACK PATCH
(“lowlifes doing the things that lowlifes do” etc) and yet celebrate the fact that
the protagonists in COW COUNTRY enjoy whipping the @@*& out of each other, which is a weirdly inconsistent stance. Any thoughts?
The big difference between Black Patch and Cow Country is what I pointed out about Black Patch, it was filled with nothing but low-lifes acting in a depraved manner. As opposed to Cow Country which was filled with good characters doing what was right and of course there wouldn’t be a story if there weren’t bad guys to fight against, so of course there were bad guys in Cow Country. But even the bad guys were not of the lowly state EVERYONE in Black Patch was. There was no one to route for in Black Patch, whereas in Cow Country most of the people were good people, the film was not populated with nothing but bums and immoral slobbering savages as you find in Black Patch. In a sentence Cow Country was a good western the way westerns should be, great story, good actors, & good guys vs. bad guys, Black Patch was filled with nothing but depraved characters without any human decency amongst the entire lot. It was bad & more bad vs. no good whatsoever.
At any rate, I’m not here telling you what to like and what not to like, if you love spaghetti westerns good for you, I don’t. It’s as simple as that.
Put a movie of the sort I don’t like and further more feel dirty after having watched and you’re not going to get a glowing review out of me. I like some redeeming values celebrated not a contest to see how low everyone can be.
Hi Johnny – I’m going to have to reserve judgement on BLACK PATCH until I finally get hold of my copy of the new WBA release. Like you, I have the old Televista DVD and the PQ is bad enough for me to have postponed watching this picture. I did read Laura’s thoughts on this (over at Laura’s Miscellaneous Musings) with interest, as I’ve always found her reviews extremely lucid and well-balanced. I don’t think she’s a Western buff per se, but she knows a good
movie when she sees one. Laura found the movie ‘disappointing’ but gives high praise to George Montgomery’s performance as the eponymous lead.
She doesn’t however mention any ‘bums or immoral slobbering characters’.
I have seen COW COUNTRY and found it to be an excellent little Western, with
the required interplay of light and dark to keep the action moving. Although I
didn’t find the whipping scenes that stimulating. I’m not quite sure where you
get your overwhelming antipathy to the Italian Western. Sergio Leone, for example,venerated the traditional American Westerns we all enjoy and not all the characters who populate his movies are necessarily venal. It certainly is
a tougher, more adult and possibly more realistic view of the West but also as much a mythology as the work of John Ford. Variety is also said to be the “spice of life” ….
I didn’t mind BLACK PATCH .Probably not one of George Montgomery’s best but certainly not his worst . Interesting in the fact that this was Jerry Goldsmith’s first movie score and he apparently reused a good portion of it in the 1978 film COMA .As I mentioned before in a previous post ,I have the Cornerstone Media DVD which is not pristine but ok .I’ve no doubt the WB one is better going by their reputation .
Nick, the protagonists weren’t whipping the blanket blank out of each other. I never said anything of the kind. Used and abused Peggie gave a sound whipping to villain R. Lowery. A just desert delivered to evil. No problem here with that. That’s not the same as saying everyone was whipping each other, koo koo. 2nd to be overly fair, it’s been a year or 2 since I’ve seen Black Patch, I don’t remember the details of it, the only thing I have a vivid memory of is my disappointing and disgusted reaction to that mess. The stars in it, good, the story the actions of the characters HORRIBLE. Didn’t like it. Don’t ask me about story and character details, they’re already out of my mind, the feeling of repulsion after the movie was over is my only definite memory. I don’t even want to watch it again once was enough. Wanna buy my Televista DVD?
Nick Beal: over the last few years I bought and watched 159 spaghetti westerns. I was hoping to find more films like Once Upon a Time In the West (1968) and Cemetery Without Crosses (1969), but the further I looked the more the quality went down. I understand about 400 were made, but I’ve only seen 159. About a dozen are good films that are worth owning, and a few are truly memorable. The rest is junk. Junk in terms of story and characterization. Most spags indulge in mindless sadism and meaningless games. Spags use the iconography and gear of the American west but not the content. There’s no heart in them. They are always colorful and technically well-made, but in terms of subtext spaghetti westerns are more about Italy’s issues with fascism than about the American west. I guess that means I don’t much like spaghetti westerns, either.
Thanks, Richard W, for putting so succinctly my own feelings about the “spaghetti” westerns but with better words than I would probably have come up with….. “There’s no heart in them” is how it strikes me; and no script to speak of either. I don’t find them either more adult or more realistic than the classic American western.
I think Richard summed up my thoughts on them, too. Some of them are very good, but that batting average is quite low. So to dig into them with any depth makes for means watching a lot of crummy movies — and I don’t enjoy the bad ones as much as I enjoy, say, a bad 50s science fiction film.
I think Richard summed up my thoughts on them, too. Some of them are very good, but that batting average is quite low. So to dig into them with any depth makes for means watching a lot of crummy movies — and I don’t enjoy the bad ones as much as I enjoy, say, a bad 50s science fiction film.
Hi Richard: I would agree with you that the overwhelming majority of Spaghetti
Westerns are indeed junk. I would also agree that there are probably only a dozen that are worth owning and might bear repeated viewing. (I’d be interested in knowing what your list of twelve might consist of BTW). I’m not a massive fan of the genre but I was simply making the point to our friend Johnny that his blanket condemnation of the Italian Western was simply misguided. I don’t think that there’s any real debate that amongst the junk there are one or two genuine masterpieces. I’m also fairly sure that Tony
Anthony’s STRANGER pictures are not among them!
Richard–W kind of speaks for me on this too, and so does Jerry with the cogent observation “I don’t find them either more adult or more realistic than the classic American Western.”
Richard–W is surely right that these films are animated by Italian issues, and of course that’s just fine but they should be considered Italian films and are perhaps best appreciated if one starts from there. I wouldn’t make any blanket condemnation because some are certainly a cut above and I do love Leone, not as much with the “Dollars” trilogy as I once did but “Once Upon a Time in the West” has been my favorite modernist Western (meaning post-1962) since it was first released and I expect will remain so. That one at least does have “heart.” And so does “Duck You Sucker.”
But I will just add this–the overkill, stylistic and otherwise, and a fair amount of the cynicism that permeates so many Italian Westerns also permeates most American Westerns through this period, which are rarely better, though again, there are conspicuous exceptions and among them movies to be treasured. Mostly, the Western had turned its back on the themes that had carried it into maturity in the 50s as well as the classical style that had made those movies so beautiful.
Again, taking it film by film, what I’ve said does not always apply, nor does it apply to all directors. Monte Hellman is one modernist who takes his Westerns in a direction I’m very happy with. And after years of wrestling with my ambivalences about him I will say the same of Sam Peckinpah, but I will also now say he is not typical of the period, nor even as influential as sometimes claimed; the deeper virtues of “The Wild Bunch” beyond its violence really haven’t been tapped by others and I kind of think Peckinpah was riding his own trail which could have been a good one for Westerns with its interesting blend of a certain idea of realism with an elegiac poetry.
I’ve been a champion of the Spaghetti Western simply because I truly enjoy mind-numbing gratuitous violence in a circa-1970 drive-in experience. And there have been some great non-Leone examples of the genre including THE BIG GUNDOWN, FACE TO FACE and DJANGO. NO Spaghetti Western, as I’ve previously stated in earlier posts, can measure up to the standards of a, let’s say, THE SEARCHERS. The Italians just cannot comprehend the true American experience when it comes to telling Western fiction, perhaps in the same fashion that we cannot comprehend the Italian mindset when we represent Kirk Douglas as SPARTACUS…. The Spaghetti Western, for the most part, dirty, immoral and lacking any cohesive plot or character development, yeah, I agree, the Spaghetti Western sadly lacks a lot of what truly makes the American Western circa 1950-60 such a viable viewing pleasure. The Italians at the time were using the Western to reflect their own world views, liberal to say the least, in which the lowlife of society rises above the corrupt system to emerge, against overwhelming odds, victorious, putting the oppressor to a violent death, or something like that.
To those of you like Johnny Guitar, chill out….The Spaghetti Western is no serious threat to our own home grown product, especially on a morality front. I really, REALLY believe that the best Westerns ever produced in the world were in the good old U.S.A., circa 1945-1960. Most Spaghettis are indeed overblown garbage, but please, allow me to wallow in my macho intensive desire to see justice meted out to corrupt bankers and town leaders, not unlike a 1930s Bob Steele Western!!! Actually, the plot similarities between most American B-Westerns of the 1930s and Spaghetti Westerns are very close, only overtly violent and cruel in case of the Spaghetti….Still, there are at least 50 or so really excellent Spaghetti Westerns out there, some even challenging the best American Westerns, and yes, a lot of crap concerning mindless double crosses and vengeful twists of fate, straight, or played for comic relief, that are more than abundant.
And true, I too prefer (and love) a bad 1950s sci-fi/horror film to a bad almost unwatchable Spaghetti Western, but we all really need to take these things in context, as a product of their time, when American product was no longer being offered to an Italian audience starved for Western entertainment,… and so they created the American Western in their own image.
As drive-in fodder, the Spaghetti Western is great stuff. As a substitute for the original home grown product, as a whole, they fail miserably. The Italians just cannot capture the true American spirit as set forth by Owen Wister (and others), especially in his novel THE VIRGINIAN, but then again, I really don’t think Italian filmmakers tried, or even cared…It’s really a whole different world,
When comprising a list of 10 or 20 best Westerns, I NEVER include Spaghetti Westerns, it’s a whole different animal. But a lot of them are some of my favorite films, I love ’em and enjoy ’em, but I just can’t compare A PISTOL FOR RINGO to RIO BRAVO. It just doesn’t work that way. Both are very good movies, they just don’t exist on the same field of play.
Nice job, Richard. And with your well-thought-out comment, I hope and pray that our Italian dinner has reached its final course.
Not that I’m anti-spaghetti Western necessarily, just that I’m tired of the bickering that came with the topic. Negativity breeds negativity, I guess.
John K, thanks for sharing Warners’ response with the rest of us. In one sense it’s encouraging; in another it confirms what we didn’t want to hear.
One curious thing though…..this coming week TCM UK are screening “AT GUNPOINT” . You would know more than I on this but if they have access to show it does that mean it is in the Warner vaults after all and could therefore restore it in its proper screen aspect for release?? Dare I keep fingers crossed?
The last Allied Artist’s Kirby Grant/Chinook movie , YUKON VENGENCE maybe, is somehow part of the Republic/Paramount library. I was hoping Warner Archives would secure it for Volume 3 for that series.
Same for the Zane Grey RKO Tim Holts that were released by Artisan/Lion’s Gate.
But I guess it is not happening.
The last update I had on the Tim Holt Zane Greys, which are in public domain, was it was still being discussed whether or not to go to the effort of cleaning them up and including them in the fifth and final Tim Holt set which is anticipated for the future.
The last films coming in that set are the titles which needed the most “work,” and they are all over the place chronologically.
Just a tiny bit of info FYI.
Best wishes,
Laura
I haven’t seen 40 GUNS for about ten years and I look forward to renewing my acquaintance via the impending Arrow Blu. My main memory of this picture, apart from its fairly obvious sexual metaphors, was the device of filling the screen with the protagonists’ eyes during the climactic showdown in a
manner which would seem to prefigure the work of Sergio Leone. In the early
pan and scan VHS days this effect was obviously completely lost, and the first time I saw this in widescreen (sourced from German TV) it was a revelation.
We certainly have come a long way since then and the fact that companies are berated for failing to release obscure Allied Artist pictures, and the existence of
blogs like this, would indicate that we’re living in a Golden Age for classic movie lovers. I’m by no means an unequivocal Samuel Fuller fan. Some of his pictures
(PARK ROW for instance) seem hysterical and even amateurish to my taste, while others I feel are top drawer. My faves from the Fuller canon would be
Noir : CRIMSON KIMONO, UNDERWORLD USA, HOUSE OF BAMBOO, SHOCKPROOF and the excellent PICKUP ON SOUTH STREET (also due on Blu from Arrow). My favourite Fuller Westerns would be I SHOT JESSE JAMES closely followed by BARON OF ARIZONA. Although interesting I personally feel that 40 GUNS ain’t quite as good but it is a very good picture and well worth a look. In another wallet encroaching development from Arrow, they have announced a Blu-Ray of MY DARLING CLEMENTINE with no less an extra
than the Randolph Scott take on the Wyatt Earp legend: FRONTIER MARSHAL also in hi-def. I would have been content with the Criterion CLEMENTINE Blu
but the inclusion of the Scott picture on the arrow Blu makes it a must-buy for me.
I’m really glad to see Frontier Marshall included in the Arrow My Darling Clementine. That was a downside to the Criterion one.
I have not seen the Warner Archive BLACK PATCH yet except to
say,remastered in widescreen it looks wonderful.
I saw the old 4×3 DVD and was underwhelmed by the film,it seemed
to end just as it was getting interesting.
As there is so little George Montgomery available on DVD this is a
film that I had to add to my collection.
I always felt George was far better than a lot of the films that he appeared
in.
I may comment further when I finally watch the Warners DVD.
Laura has given us an excellent and very fair review of ARROW IN THE
DUST which I recommend everyone to read.
The highlight for me though is the very splendid THE DAKOTAS.
What a sensational series,with far higher production values than the
likes of CHEYENNE and BRONCO.
Some of these episodes are simply sensational especially one where
a VERY strident Beverly Garland rides herd over a town full of male
weaklings. I know there are lots of Beverly fans on this blog but I have
never seen her going full blast as she is here.
All I can say is don’t be without this great series.
As mentioned before the wonderful Noirish photography of the
great Bert Glennon add much to this great show.
I haven’t watched Samuel Fullers FORTY GUNS in a while, but I seem to remember it as a pretty good film. A typically strong performance by Barbara Stanwyck ( wasn’t she always great in westerns?) as the despotic landowner who dominates the movie as well as the other characters within it. No doubt it will look even better in blu -ray.
Just to backtrack a bit over Johnny and Nick’s comments.
In COW COUNTRY the whipping scene is not meant to “stimulate”
as Nick ill advisedly states-it’s all part of the character’s motivation and
circumstance. Peggie’s character comes from a dirt poor background,
I love the scene where her impoverished father (Rory Mallison)
cannot even read. (Selander like Boetticher liked to have illiterate
characters in Westerns unlike the purple prose spouted by characters
in the psychological Westerns)
Robert Lowery rotten that he is, comes from a social pecking order that
Peggie would like to aspire to,she is betrayed by his two timing antics.
The scene portrays Peggie’s sense of betrayal and I feel was very well
done plus the fact Lowery deserved it;Peggie was far too good for him.
Regarding BLACK PATCH;that film was part of a trio of somewhat
“arty” low budget Westerns made around the same time by the
interesting Allen H Miner.
THE RIDE BACK with Anthony Quinn is possibly the best known.
I actually out of the three rather like GHOST TOWN a very low
budget Bel-Air production.Here’s a interesting point-GHOST TOWN has
the classic lone figure framed in the doorway so much heralded
in THE SEARCHERS. Both films were released in 1956-which came first.
GHOST TOWN (as was THE RIDE BACK) was shot by FORTY GUNS
Joseph Biroc I might add,to bring things back on topic.
I know it’s a taboo subject here,but it does encourage lively debate
so that cannot be bad ;but I must admit to having enjoyed Warner
Archive’s STRANGER TRILOGY starring the enigmatic Tony Anthony.
The first two films are spared down low budget Spaghetti take-off’s
but closer to the American variety than most.
Visually these films are very impressive with Anthony a rather
self deprecating and indeed asexual anti-hero. Anthony’s character
seems more interested in his horse than women.
The third film in the trilogy sees Anthony (and his horse) off to Japan
in an extremely cartoon-like but visually very striking episode.
The visuals in this third encounter are impressive set in a wind lashed
storm bound shanty town Japan. Just switch off your brain and
enjoy this nonsense for what it is.
I’d love to get feedback from Jeff and Richard O on these films,I really
like them,but there again I am a self confessed “trash addict”
John, I was hoping to get your thoughts on my question above re “AT GUNPOINT” as you are much better versed than I on these matters. Whaddyathink?
I’ve never seen Black Patch. Maltin rates it a BOMB.
Does it really matter how Maltin rates it, Ken? I haven’t seen it yet either but want to and pretty sure I have a good friend to lend it to me some time.
Of the three by Allen H. Miner that John K. mentions, THE RIDE BACK is the only one I’ve seen and it’s an interesting Western–I wouldn’t say it’s a special favorite of mine but it’s a solid if rather sombre piece, character driven with basically two characters played by Anthony Quinn and William Conrad. Interestingly, it was made by Robert Aldrich’s production company so I guess Aldrich would have had first call on directing if he had wanted to–it would have fit right into his work; it’s probably a little quieter with Miner directing and that’s just an observation and not a value judgement.
The support or non support for BLACK PATCH seems to vary .If you look at IMDB ,Amazon,.Amazon UK the support is mainly good ,but you really have to see it for your self .I would have liked a different ending though.
I just received THE OREGON TRAIL , HELLFIRE and FURY AT FURNACE CREEK .FURY was terrific .
Do you have a link to HELLFIRE ? I can’t seem to find it online.
Richard W , I bought my copy of HELLFIRE from Movies Unlimited .The colour isn’t all that good .If you buy it let me know what you think.
Shout Factory webpage shows The Rebel: The Complete Series coming out in August. It says something about the classic theme song being included, or words to that effect, but doesn’t state it is Johnny Cash singing.:
Off the current topic but of interest to subscribers to this blog. I have just been onto Warner Bros Archives regarding the likelihood of two westerns, namely THE CHARGE AT FEATHER RIVER and SUGARFOOT being released to dvd. This is their reply:- “Sugarfoot is not clear for release at this time. The Charge At Feather River is a possibility for future release. Meanwhile a big western feature line up is on the way.”
That is a very enticing response from WA, Ron “Meanwhile a major western feature lineup is on the way”. More nice surprises to come hopefully?
Obviously, problems remain over “SUGARFOOT”.
3-D enthusiasts have been pleading with Warner Home Video to release The Charge At Feather River (1953) in 3-D blu-ray, but the years go by and nothing. I’ve seen it projected in 3-D a few times, and it is one outstanding western, not to mention a state-of-the-art stereoscopic crowd-pleaser. In some ways it is a precursor to The Searchers. If WHV releases the film in standard flat version on a DVD-R it will be an injustice to the film. But I will settle for it. I hope WHV does in fact release it, but I won’t believe it until I hold the film in my hands.
Changing the topic now, I would like to recommend FRIEND OF THE DEVIL to everybody. This is an 1850s western, a proposed TV pilot, episode length, produced independently by a very dedicated actor-director who loves traditional American westerns. He’s selling it on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Friend-of-the-Devil-DVD-Western-Film-Making-of-SASS-Cowboy-Alamo-Village-/321068183845?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac127b125
I think everyone will enjoy it.
I’ve been reading all of the above with interest, and would also like to thank Nick and John for their kind words. (Nick, I might not have particularly called myself a Westerns fan a few years ago, compared to other genres, but I’m definitely a more ardent fan with each passing year! The enthusiasm and knowledge of all here have certainly played a role in that.) Big thanks also to Richard for taking the time to email me some Blu-ray player info.
In terms of BLACK PATCH, the new Archive DVD looks great. While I didn’t have the strong feelings of Johnny G. toward the villains, my comment on them reminding me of TOUCH OF EVIL kind of captures my own feeling that they were a rather sordid lot, lol.
I adore COW COUNTRY and add my enthused thumbs up to those above. Hoping for a Warner Archive DVD sooner rather than later!
Re Leonard Maltin: I stand second to none in my admiration of the man and appreciation for the help of his guides over the years — I have them scattered all over my house — but the more movies I see, the more I realize how important it is to see them for myself. Maltin’s books are particularly deficient in their assessment of mid- and lower-range Westerns; they often don’t appear to have been reviewed by Western fans who can appreciate their relative strengths and weaknesses in the context of the genre, and sometimes, based on the inaccurate plot descriptions, they hadn’t even been actually watched by his staff, at least any time recently.
Case in point: COW COUNTRY rates just 2 stars in the Maltin book. Can’t tell you how many Maltin-rated 1-1/2 star and 2 star Westerns I’ve loved, such as George Montgomery’s 1-1/2 star CANYON RIVER, which I enjoyed so much I bought my own copy after renting it. There are many more such examples.
And Blake, you can be sure of seeing BLACK PATCH. 🙂 🙂
Best wishes,
Laura
Yeah, thanks, Laura, and of course you were the person I was referring to as regards BLACK PATCH having read your review a few days ago.
What you say about Leonard Maltin is exactly right and I didn’t mean to be dismissive of him. He has kept his enthusiasm for movies and been an invaluable resource over the years too. Like you, I’m pretty certain he and his staff have not seen everything. I think they are trying to and have been known to upgrade sometimes when they do.
Re 50s Westerns, for example, for a long time any Ranown cycle movie hovered between 2 and 3 stars and that was all they got. I haven’t looked lately but I’m betting those ratings may have gone up.
My main point to Ken was simply not to let ANYONE but you decide if you want to see a movie, especially not to be dissuaded from seeing it (I’m more in favor of trying to encourage people if I like something). I say that about Maltin or anyone. That includes me, too, because I tend to have strong opinions and they don’t always go with the flow. For example, A CLOCKWORK ORANGE (we are far from Westerns here) is a movie widely regarded as a masterpiece, but for me is the worst movie ever made, not the most badly made I guess, however obvious and simplistic it actually is from a formal point of view, but the most morally hateful, repulsive and depressing.
I agree on the Maltin books. I have had one around my house since the ’80’s, if you were to see my 1992 edition it’s the most beat up, taped up book I have, one I have to push the pages back in when I look up movies, that’s how often I’ve used it over the years. BUT I must agree with Laura’s comment that many time in fact most of the time, the lower the rating a movie gets in Maltin’s book usually the more I like it after having watched for myself. And likewise many of his 4 star movies are some of the worst crap you could ever dream of watching.
I used to take his reviews more seriously, now I mainly rely on them for factual information, time total, stars, director, otherwise the stars & reviews are pretty much moot for me. How many Duke movies have I seen with 2 stars that I would rate with an easy 5. Same goes with almost any movie with Ronald Reagan, it may be his liberal staff he has doing the reviews but there definitely is a liberal bias in movies from stars like these. At any rate before the Internet it was my most often used source.
I used to see a lot of Leonard Maltin in Los Angeles. Aside from his books, he gives good service to repertory theaters and archives, acting as an MC and host, introducing old movies and interviewing celebrities before the screening. In person, his remarks are appreciate rather than critical. He’s so good at what he does that’s stayed in demand for decades. The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences depend on him a great deal to introduce restorations and host special screenings. I’ve seen him host film events at the American Cinematheque, USC, the New Beverly, the Academy, and so on. He fills an important role, I think. He always makes a point of going up to the snack bar and coming back down the aisle with popcorn and a drink. I grew up on his Movie Guide. I must agree with Laura that his Guide under-estimates American westerns.
By coincidence, the last two westerns I watched were THE PROUD REBEL (1958) and ONE FOOT IN HELL (1960). Excellent westerns, and both starred Alan Ladd in two of the best performances of his career. What I found in THE PROUD REBEL and ONE FOOT IN HELL is everything that I miss in spaghetti westerns. If the spags of the 1960s had one single advantage, it is in the historical costuming and gritty aesthetics that American westerns lost track of after the silent era.
The costuming in 50s Westerns hasn’t come up too much here, which is surprising. I love the stuff William S. Hart wore (actually, I just LOVE William S. Hart), but I really like the non-realistic things they wore in the 50s. Like Dorothy Malone in Quantez — she looks like she belongs more on The Real McCoys than in the Real West.
In more rec ent Westerns, though it might be more accurate, I get tired of everyone looking so dirty.
Blake and Richard, thanks for your feedback on Maltin. Blake, I’ve noticed the occasional change of ratings also — particularly some Westerns and musicals whose ratings back in my earliest edition from the ’70s have changed over the years.
I also grew up with Maltin (and also the late Stephen Scheuer’s valued rating book) — beyond his rating books, Maltin’s book on DISNEY FILMS was an invaluable guide years ago when not a lot was out there on the subject, and it’s one of the first film books I remember checking out of the library as a kid. Later I bought my own copy.
Like Richard (and I’m sure Blake too) I have seen Maltin at countless screenings over the years, a real perk of being able to see movies here in the L.A. area (plus my daughter took his famous course at USC). It’s true, he always focuses on what he likes when he intros a movie, which I appreciate. I also appreciate that he is genuinely friendly and happy to engage with those who come out to see the films.
As much as I love his intros and interviews, it’s also fun seeing him out and about in audiences simply enjoying movies with his fellow classic film fans, as was the case most recently at the Noir City Film Festival.
Richard, I recently recorded ONE FOOT IN HELL, sounds like I need to check him out. Alan Ladd is someone I admire more with each film I see.
Best wishes,
Laura
Well, I suppose it doesn’t matter anyway, because Maltin announced earlier this year that his giant movie guide book would no longer be published. The internet has rendered it obsolete. It was always very thin on its westerns coverage anyhow.
A far more inclusive resource was Mick Martin’s and Marsha Porter’s Video Movie Guide which had a much broader range of western reviews. It ceased publication a number of years ago. I still use my edition (from 1999) for the western ratings.
Hi Blake. Really enjoyed your comments above. Much here to ponder so apologies if this response is more ‘stream of consciousness’ than linear. I’ve
always felt that Peckinpah’s finest picture is RIDE THE HIGH COUNTRY rather
than THE WILD BUNCH. RIDE for me is almost a summation of the values of the traditional Western particularly given the mythic status of its two stars. I also find it very difficult to enjoy the entire Peckinpah canon. STRAW DOGS has it’s defenders but I find it as repugnant as we both find A CLOCKWORK ORANGE,
which is little more than a celebration of depravity. ALFREDO GARCIA doesn’t do a great deal for me either.
I would still maintain that Spaghetti Westerns were, at their best, more adult than what their American counterparts had become by the mid-sixties. I also
still maintain that it was the vastly popular, family-orientated TV Westerns that trivialised the genre. Archetypes became stereotypes in lazily plotted, cheaply made, badly directed shows like CHEYENNE, BRONCO and THE VIRGINIAN and familiarity did eventually breed contempt. (This is why THE DAKOTAS, which shows what could be achieved by the TV Western, has been such a revelation). On the big screen the tired cliches were eventually exhausted by the likes of A.C.Lyles and a posse of equally tired geriatric stars. The Spaghetti Western briefly invigorated a moribund genre, although I think its politics lend themselves more to Marxism than Fascism.
I agree that it’s undeniable that the best of the Sergio Leone pictures do have ‘heart’. It’s fine to exhort the qualities of a good Lesley Selander programmer
like COW COUNTRY but a picture like ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST
is an immeasurably greater achievement IMO and remains profoundly moving, enigmatic and elegaic. “Tell me who you are”.”Only at the point of dying..”
As for the final Leone, ONCE UPON A TIME IN AMERICA, I find this to be
unjustly neglected. It’s a masterly meditation on the human condition in all its
squalor and nobility and also how the passage of time can both corrupt and
ennoble. We’re a long way here from the childlike virtues of a Johnny Mack
Brown B-Western, Peggy Castle whipping a miscreant or Clint Walker riding
into the sunset at the end of this week’s CHEYENNE followed by a gaggle of
adoring kids. Enjoyable as these things are.
How I would have loved to have seen Clint Walker directed by Sergio Leone or even Don Seigel. There’s a glimpse of what-might-have-been in a half-decent made-for-TV Western entitled THE BOUNTY MAN (which hopefully will see a Warner Archive release). Clint, sporting a fearsome scowl and a mean looking mustache, plays a ruthless bounty hunter named Kincaid. The opening
sequence involves the brutal apprehension of fugitive in none-too-friendly
saloon and here Clint is simply awesome.
Nick, I absolutely agree that RIDE THE HIGH COUNTRY is Peckinpah’s best film and have said so many times. It’s one of my favorite Westerns. I cited THE WILD BUNCH simply as emblematic of Peckinpah after the sea change of the 60s. The interesting thing about him is that he has one foot in classicism (RIDE THE HIGH COUNTRY) and one foot in modernism (the last three Westerns, with MAJOR DUNDEE transitional); no other director is that kind of figure and it makes him interesting So, just to clarify, HIGH COUNTRY is my favorite by a long way, followed by THE BALLAD OF CABLE HOGUE, PAT GARRETT AND BILLY THE KID and THE WILD BUNCH in that order, but I now appreciate all of the last three. For that matter, thanks to Toby finally got to see his first feature THE DEADLY COMPANIONS in proper ‘Scope format and there’s a lot to appreciate in it though it kind of misses. As I said here recently, of earlier Peckinpah I really love his series THE WESTERNER, which he created and produced as well as writing and directing a lot of it, including the haunting “Jeff.” Mostly, I don’t talk much about Peckinpah’s non-Westerns and STRAW DOGS is a movie I especially dislike. I think he drew his artistry partly from a personal background in the real West and had a lot of affinity for it and deep feeling for its ethos. Separate from that, his ideas can become simplistic.
Also wasn’t getting into Leone too much there, but I do agree with you about ONCE UPON A TIME IN AMERICA and probably consider it his greatest film if I had to choose though I would rather not. I thought what you said about it in your description was very apt.
However, I wouldn’t use this to beat up on something as good as COW COUNTRY or so many other modest 50s Westerns that are genuinely excellent even when they don’t have a great scene of Peggie Castle whipping the man who did her wrong.
Late 60s and 70s Westerns on the whole have been a struggle for me, though there are a fair number of exceptions to the malaise I feel about the genre in later years. The last two I really loved were made in the 90s over 20 years ago (UNFORGIVEN and GERONIMO: AN AMERICAN LEGEND). It has never fully found its way back but I don’t feel that it really needs to and could just watch the classic Westerns, especially from the 50s, forever, still waiting on a first viewing of BLACK PATCH and things like that.
Of course movies like those produced by Lyles were anemic but cynicism and facetiousness is no better. The failure to take death seriously and overdose of killings (compare the 2007 3;10 TO YUMA to the Daves original on this) is not helpful either. If we disagree, I just don’t think Spaghetti Westerns were any more helpful than any made here–for my part, most of the Westerns of those years can share the blame for the decline in different ways. As I indicated, my way of dealing with this now is to be careful to take each movie individually, without specific expectations of it, and if it works, try to understand why.
Hi Blake. I think that to compare the 2007 3:10 TO YUMA with the original not
only is an apt metaphor for the decline of the Western but of movies generally.
Returning to Peckinpah, I think that PAT GARRETT is a pretty good, if overrated picture. I don’t like Dylan either as a singer ( a poor man’s Neill Young?) or an actor and I found his cameo an irritation. I didn’t like CABLE HOGUE, but that’s just a personal thing as I like my Westerns to be more on the grim side.
I wasn’t intending to beat up on COW COUNTRY which is a movie I really like
but to compare it to ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST ….
As for modern Westerns, every time one is announced I wait in genuine
expectation for a revival of the genre and every time I’m disappointed. The latest dud was THE HOMESMAN, which given the participation of Tommy Lee Jones and Hilary Swank, I had high hopes for. Although beautifully made
this proved to be an execrable trawl through the more squalid aspects of Frontier Life, real or imagined. Avoid at all costs.
Nice to talk to you Blake but it’s 2.30am here in the UK and definitely time to crash …
Regarding THE HOMESMAN — what the hell was Tommy Lee Jones thinking when he made this misery? When Glendon Swarthought entrusted Tommy Lee Jones with this book he didn’t realize Jones was going to turn the male lead into a total wuss. Every time Jones makes a western, he turns the hero into a wuss. Perhaps Jones is a wuss himself. A Bel Air wuss. I can’t stand looking at him. Watching him is like being scolded by some high-pitched old shrew. I agree: an execrable trawl best avoided by those who love westerns.
Blake, I haven’t seen Geronimo: An American Legend since it played theaters. It didn’t impress me much then. Your enthusiasm for it has me wanting to see it again. Hill and Milius are a formidable pair.
For some reason, the DVD of this was released pan and scan rather than letterboxed for its original anamorphic ratio. That’s mystifying–a shame and naturally I am unwilling to watch it again that way and hope the correct version will come out sooner rather than later. I managed to arrange a screening in 70 millimeter on a Western series here and was able to interview Walter Hill and the eventual screenwriter Larry Gross (Milius worked on it first) afterward, and it was a really good discussion with them that they both appreciated. Hill appreciates classical Westerns and was to an extent mentored by no less than Robert Aldrich–he and Gross felt that ULZANA’S RAID (1972) was a model for what they hoped to do in this film and I believe that was discerning. I’m guessing that’s one later Western that many others here like too.
I won’t push GERONIMO too hard now since it’s hard to see. Suffice to say that Hill, who has a very modern style with his long lenses (and beautiful color with cinematographer Lloyd Ahern) gets a feeling of distance and dispassion that are very good for this familiar subject of the Apache Wars that has been treated so much in earlier Westerns, many of them imposing. Hill’s film is probably the closest for me that the Western has come to the later historical films of Roberto Rossellini, which I much admire.
When I really respond to a Western of whatever period, there is a feeling coming out of it that is deeply satisfying and then it lingers in my mind. That has happened less and less but definitely it did with this. For the record, Hill is one modernist I have some belief in but of his Westerns, this remains much the best for me though I do also like THE LONG RIDERS. WILD BILL went too far in an arty direction and I had trouble with it but want to see it again. I’m not sure how I feel about the TV BROKEN TRAIL now. I liked it at the time. But I didn’t feel that way at all about the DEADWOOD pilot–I disliked it so much that I didn’t go on with the show. David Milch’s sensibility is unlike Hill’s and not in an appealing way so just didn’t work at all for me.
How I would have loved to have seen Clint
Walker directed by Sergio Leone or even
Don Seigel. There’s a glimpse of what-might-
have-been in a half-decent made-for-TV
Western entitled THE BOUNTY MAN (which
hopefully will see a Warner Archive release).
Clint, sporting a fearsome scowl and a mean
looking mustache, plays a ruthless bounty
hunter named Kincaid. The opening sequence
involves the brutal apprehension of fugitive in
none-too-friendly saloon and here Clint is
simply awesome.
Like Chuck Connors and Forest Tucker, the movies let go of Clint Walker to soon. He should have been starring in A-list westerns throughout the 1970s.
Clint was definitely awesome in THE BOUNTY MAN. This hardboiled movie-of-the-week (ABC, 1972, 73 minutes in a 90-minute time slot) was written by the late Jim Byrnes, who wrote many episodes of GUNSMOKE and a number of the better TV movies and mini-series (THE SACKETTS, etc). Jim thought THE BOUNTY MAN was one of the best scripts he ever wrote. Clint Walker told Jim that Kinkaid was his favorite character. After the execs at ABC saw the finished film, they told Jim it came out so well they should have made it a feature film. It co-starred Margot Kidder in one of her first roles. It was directed by John Llewellyn Moxey, an accomplished craftsman who was much in demand by the networks because he performed miracles bringing in episodes and telefilms on budget and on time. When he slowed down, he could also deliver a first-rate feature film. THE BOUNTY MAN is a cheap telefilm, but it’s a story well-told and full of surprises.
THE BOUNTY MAN (ABC-TV, 1972) is on youtube:
For what it is worth … if I could get back in to edit my post above, I would add that the relentless nihilism of spaghetti westerns is not realistic, and not an accurate portrayal of the American west. I’ve come to see the absence of nihilism as a virtue. The warm and humanity of American westerns makes the violence hurt, as it should, whereas the relentless nihilism of spags makes the violence senseless and numbing. I hope that makes sense ….
Amazon in Germany has scheduled BRIMSTONE (1949) for release in late June. It’s being advertised as having an English soundtrack as well as a German one. I don’t know what to think since some of the other releases from this same company were originally described as having English soundtracks only to later be corrected to German only. Here’s hoping.
BRIMSTONE is one of my most-wanted westerns on disc. Trucolor was an unstable process and takes some special care to get right in the digital medium. Does amazon indicate a DVD or a blu-ray?
I had my first Stephen Scheuer in the 1960’s, I still have it too. When Maltin came along he sort of replaced Scheuer, don’t know why, book stores just seemed more likely to carry the Maltin book. (No Amazon then.)
I won’t comment on most of the pro-new westerns talk (by new I mean any made past 1965) as I’m not interested in a battle, but I will say I like Tony Young, esp. in the GUNSLINGER TV series, maybe, just maybe I’ll check out one of his spaghetti meals. But I’ll take the Clint Walker of Cheyenne, an honest man of decency, interested in helping others and doing the right thing over a “revised” western type where he would no doubt be turned into a snarling, drool dribbling, inhuman slave owner, woman beating, & vicious killer killing just for the fun of it (you know, the typical character that populates all spaghetti westerns and all westerns made past ’65) anytime.
Don’t you like TRUE GRIT (1969) ? THE TRAIN ROBBERS (1973) ? how about THE SHOOTIST (1976) ?
Hmm, looks like Tony didn’t actually make any foreign westerns, at least IMDP says USA for the few westerns he made past ’64. Taggart & He Rides Tall seem like the candidates to give a try. Though the description given by an Amazon reviewer for Taggart doesn’t give me much hope for seeing a decent western of the type of the ’50’s, a woman handed over to Indians and then woman is promptly scalped. Nope definitely wouldn’t have happened with Randolph Scott in charge.
Ooop, correction, make that the description from He Rides Tall not Taggart. Oh well, as I’ve said before like what you want, we all have different opinions. Most of the stuff I like a young person of today wouldn’t think of watching. Darn whipper snappers.
This has all the makings of another fine thread, Toby, with some very fine observations being made here already. There is more to explore too on the matter of attire in these films, as you raised yourself. This is a real ‘pleasure trove’.
Boy, this site has been cooking with gas recently with these long comment threads…great stuff!
Don’t want to derail the thread with more TV westerns talk, but for those regular commenters who expressed interest before, THE REBEL series DVD set is no longer a rumor:
https://www.shoutfactory.com/tv/western/the-rebel-the-complete-series-the-collector-s-edition
Nice to see a few extra features are being included, too.
Oops, I see I missed that Texican brought up THE REBEL news upthread.
Sorry for the unnecessary plug, Toby!
In response to John K.’s request for feedback on THE STRANGER trilogy of films…I haven’t seen ’em before, John, but am interested, especially in the third one that’s set in Japan (since I live in Japan, I always take a special interest in non-Japanese films set and filmed here).
Hi Jeff,
I’d be very interested to hear your feedback on THE STRANGER
trilogy.
The first film is the best and for me one of the best Spaghetti’s.
The second film is just a re-tread of the first but somewhat spoiled
by introducing a gold plated stagecoach into the plot…really silly,
even for a Spaghetti. It does have some great moments though.
The third film has little to do with the first two films and is the silliest
of the three but visually it’s sensational. The film is set in a shanty-town
Japan where it never stops raining and is constantly lashed by fierce
winds.Anthony’s character is even more asexual than before,especially
considering all the eye candy on display in the film.
I picked this set up really cheap on Amazon,even cheaper than a
Warner Archive single film release so it’s a really good value package.
Anthony bears a striking likeness to Nick Adams I might add.
It’s funny mention Spaghetti’s and this blog catches fire,though most
folks here don’t like ’em.
I like ’em because they offer an interesting alternative version
to the Hollywood version of the Wild West which in turn was mostly
pure fantasy anyway. A fantasy within a fantasy if you like.
One of the best,for me at least later day Westerns was the unheralded
CATTLE ANNIE AND LITTLE BRITCHES,proof that you can make
a gritty authentic Western without blood splattered gore and violence.
Sign me up for THE CLOCKWORK ORANGE non fan club BTW.
More BLACK PATCH……..
Interestingly,in the 2010 Maltin Classic Movie Guide BLACK PATCH
is upgraded to two and a half stars and is classed as an interesting
dark tinged Western. This may be because Boyd Magers was one of
the editors and Magers gives the film his seal of approval on his site.
I must say seeing the film in the beautiful crisp widescreen presentation
from Warners has raised my opinion of the film. I had the old 4×3 DVD
which I promptly sold.
The film is very well directed by Allen H Miner and the tone of the film
is dark and somber throughout …..I like that.Miner directed few features
and all of his “Western Trilogy” are worth catching. He obviously was a
real talent and it’s a shame that he never directed a big budget Western.
His TV directing credits are prolific.
I’m really looking forward to sitting down with Black Patch again. I couldn’t make it through the old DVD. It looked awful. With the widely varying opinions of it around here, and with Laura’s review, I’m sure it’ll be interesting if nothing else. And, of course, I can count on the picture quality from Warner Archive.
Speaking of that, The Hired Gun looks like a million bucks, and the ‘Scope Lone Pine photography is incredible.
Yep! THE HIRED GUN looks sensational.
Toby,is THE DAKOTAS on your radar…it should be!
Excited to hear that about THE HIRED GUN. I expect a review copy to arrive later in the week.
Best wishes,
Laura
Backtracking.
Jerry,the fact that UK TV are showing AT GUNPOINT does not mean
Warner own this film…they don’t. UK TV also show DRAGOON WELLS
MASSACRE (as a 4×3) and again Warners do not own this title.
I don’t know where the UK TV channels get their copies from.
They also show BULLWHIP another Allied Artists title not owned by
Warners. All these films are appearing in Germany but mostly with
German only soundtracks I presume the German imprint (Film Jewels)
are getting their copies from a German TV channel.
As I have mentioned countless times before decades ago Allied
Artists (including Monogram) sold a whole chunk of their vaults to
Republic…now owned by Paramount.
Richard W,
BRIMSTONE will it seems, have an English soundtrack,as will
RIDE THE MAN DOWN when Film Jewels finally get round to releasing it.
This situation may change…stay tuned.
I will get both these films,if in fact,they are in English and will report
here on the p.q. so again stay tuned.
I did get the Film Jewels version of THE ETERNAL SEA and it was
a pretty decent transfer with an English soundtrack.
Film Jewels do not do Blu-Rays of the Republic (and Allied Artists)
Westerns they are releasing.
I am as “sick as a parrot” (as we say over the pond) that ROAD TO
DENVER,SANTA FE PASSAGE,SPOILERS OF THE FOREST,WOMAN
OF THE NORTH COUNTRY,THE PLUNDERERS (Cameron Tucker)
and others have German only soundtracks.
Trucolor can be problematic (this is what’s holding back the Warner
Archive release of MONTANA BELLE) so let’s hope it’s OK on these
German releases.
I finally gave up all hope of seeing AT GUNPOINT getting a DVD
release so I finally viewed my “off air” copy,in 1.85.
I must say the film is OK nothing more and certainly not in the
league of Alfred Werkers other Westerns THE LOST POSSE
(his masterwork) THREE HOURS TO KILL and REBEL IN TOWN.
ONE FOOT IN HELL has been name-dropped here.
Laura,I will be very interested in hearing your opinion of this film.
For me it’s a bit of a mis-fire,starts off well but fizzles.
Poor Alan Ladd looks so tired and ill in this film,it’s painful to watch.
A better latter day Ladd,though a non Western is 13 WEST STREET
an early vigilante movie,and a real goodie. Film has an on form Ladd
and would you believe a non hammy Rod Steiger.
Regarding Clint Walker,I feel guys like Clint and Stuart Whitman
came along a decade or so too late the “beefcake” star was going
out of vogue in favor of the leaner meaner types,McQueen Eastwood,
Coburn.I like Walker and Whitman and feel they should have had far
better careers as far as feature films go.
I must say I’d watch those two in any Western.
John,
Thanks for getting back on my question re “AT GUNPOINT”. It was a pretty vain hope on my part, to be honest….
However, I will be VERY interested when we find out if “BRIMSTONE” & “RIDE THE MAN DOWN” do actually have original English soundtracks. They are both terrific westerns and will go to the top of my shopping list.
Great to hear how good “THE HIRED GUN” looks – my copy should arrive this week!
Consulting my records, it appears I have never seen an episode of “THE REBEL”. This surprises me a little but I would be interested to have others’ opinion of the series. Worth getting?
For the record, I would much rather watch Cow Country or an episode of Lone Ranger or even Frontier Doctor 10 times more than I’d want to sit thru the torture of ANY spaghetti western, yes this includes your precious Once Upon A Time crap, and even the most loved Good Bad Ugly, they all stink, only some stink less than others. There’s no talking me into it, just pass me a Roy Rogers western.
Bottom line and my final word on this mess: I have no interest in the so-called “revised” western, these aren’t revised, that’s just a politically correct term for what are in reality ALL anti-west, anti-cowboy, anti-cowboy creed, and most of all they are all based on a true anti-American attitude that is responsible for the creation of such atrocities. This is the real culprit of 99% of all westerns made after 1962 or ’63. Exceptions only for any and all John Wayne movies and most Clint Eastwood movies.
Just to clarify then Johnny, you’d rather watch a TV show aimed at pre-teen kids
than an acclaimed cinematic masterpiece filled with iconic characters and helmed by one of the great directors? Just asking.
Now you got it, celebrations of depravity, which is what these type movies are just aren’t worth a minute of my valuable time.
Re: the spaghetti western
I’m certainly no expert on the subject; some I like, some I don’t, and most I’ve never seen. Since there were so many of them, I tend to let the critics be my guide. If a title is pretty much universally trashed, I don’t bother with it.
I do note that what we call spaghetti westerns were made in different countries during a particular period of time. Some were shot in Italy, some in Spain, some in Germany, and who knows where else by directors of various nationalities. I prefer the term Euro-Western, although the best of the best, ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST, was actually filmed in the American West.
If someone hasn’t already mentioned it, I’d recommend THE GREAT SILENCE (1968), directed by Sergio Corbucci and starring Jean-Louis Trintignant and Klaus Kinski. Most of you are probably already familiar with it, and it certainly won’t appeal to Johnny-G, but it’s one of my favorite Euros.
ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST did some travel shots in Monument Valley and Moab, Utah. The USA locations amount to only a couple of minutes of screen time but it adds so much to the film. The filming in Bavispe, northern Mexico, not far from Arizona’s southern border, looks to be more extensive. 98% of the filming was in Almeria, Spain. I consider ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST a masterpiece of cinema, although its ambivalence and determined nihilism make me withdraw from it somewhat. THE GREAT SILENCE is actually a Spanish film from an Italian director. There is some location work on the snowy slopes of Cortina, Italy where FROM YOUR EYES ONLY also shot, but the majority of the film was shot in the Pyrenees Mountains, Spain for the snow. THE GREAT SILENCE has much to recommend it, but again its ambivalence and nihilism to the nth degree impairs my ability to enjoy it. I understand that the dead ending was not the original ending; there is an alternative ending I like much more. The dead ending spoils the film for me.
Thanks, Richard.
THE BIG SILENCE would be on many lists of the dozen best Euro -Westerns
and maybe it would just about scrape onto mine. However, it’s a picture to admire (in part) rather than to be enjoyed. It’s a very tough watch and it’s not one that I’d care to revisit any time soon. Outside of the Dollars trilogy, I’d have to say that my favorite would have to be DEATH RIDES A HORSE which I saw
again recently in the form of a stunning German BD. This is one great Western (regardless of its country of origin) and Van Cleef was never better.
I have a low opinion of the Dollars trilogy, to be honest, and I’ve never been impressed with Clint Eastwood. I never understood why moviegoers lose their heads over him. He has made less westerns than any other western star, and his influence on the genre has been destructive, if you stop and take a serious look at it. There is one moment in THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY that is absolutely brilliant, however, and it doesn’t involve Clint. That is near the beginning when the boy riding a mule around the grindstone watches Lee Van Cleef ride in from a distance. Van Cleef invites himself into the the house, sits down to supper uninvited, and the family knows something bad is about to happen. Then the shooting starts and it ends with the wife and mother’s POV with the camera spinning as she faints. There is very little dialogue, and it’s all subtext, with Van Cleef’s leering expression. He plays the scene perfectly. I wish the entire film were like that. It is so well choreographed, shot, timed, edited and acted that it is positively an amazing scene, worth more than the 2.5 hours that surround it.
THE GREAT SILENCE is indeed a tough watch and DEATH RIDES A HORSE is a lot of fun.
I have a low opinion of these Euro westerns generally, sorry to say. I find them totally lacking in heart or soul. I would rate Leone’s “Once Upon A Time In The West” as the best of them but ‘masterpiece’ would not be my description. (I personally prefer his ‘Once…….In America’). The overriding feeling they give off to me is negativity, and I find that true of the majority of westerns after the mid-1960s.
I celebrate the fact that we all differ in our tastes though within the genre and that we come on here to discuss and argue our points in a civilised manner. Sheriff Toby should be proud!
Thanks Jerry for that sage response. I’ve already “unsubscribed” to this thread as I did last time foreign, post early ’60’s westerns took over the thread discussion. I don’t want to get political as this thread would surely lead me and I don’t want to get into any further arguments with fellow western fans who any other time I enjoy reading. So it’s best I step off the porch for now. See you around the next bend.
I understand where Johnny Guitar is coming from and how he feels. To some extant I share his upset. Times changed, and like all movie genres the western had to adapt in the 1960s. But the seeds for that change were planted in the 1950s; take another look at MAN OF THE WEST and DAY OF THE OUTLAW for example. Grim stories. Westerns had started out accurate and authentic and drifted into fantasy; the western needed someone like Sam Peckinpah to bring it back to reality. Even John Ford followed suit with THE MAN WHO SHOT LIBERTY VALANCE and CHEYENNE AUTUMN. Those films were literate and intelligent compared to the onslaught of spags, which were largely illiterate and just plain dumb. The nihilism and ambivalence of spaghetti westerns, and of Clint Eastwood vehicles, had a negative impact on the genre. However, the present-day deconstruction of the male hero and the ridiculing of the western — a studio policy — has been far more destructive. And it continues with films like WILD WILD WEST, THE MISSING, 8 MILLION WAYS TO DIE and THE HOMESMAN, as well as in TV programs like DEADWOOD and COMANCHE MOON. These titles are agenda-driven.
i just wanted to respond briefly to Blake’s reference to DEADWOOD, which I just about managed to stay with until the end. This show really is peopled
by ‘drooling, immoral characters’, (an assertion which is clearly ridiculous in the context of the other films discussed in this thread), every other word is a profanity and humanity is depicted as essentially venal. However, the show has one transcendent moment when Timothy Olyphant’s Town Sheriff finally straps on his guns ‘to put things aright’. It’s as though, buried under the mud, rags and
cynicism the traditional mores of the Western are alive and well and trying to break through once more.
Agree with Richard-W about the opening of THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY. It’s sublimely directed and Van Cleef’s black-clad gunman comes across as The Angel of Death himself. In fact, I think the character is called ‘Angel Eyes’. THE GOOD is IMHO overlong and tedious in places but it’s finest moments are stunning. I feel that FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE is the best of the three.
Like Jerry Entract, I also have a generally low opinion Euro Westerns but to dismiss the best of them as junk is simply nuts. And yes, I do maintain that ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST is a masterpiece.
It’s also important to remember that the denizens of the Old West weren’t necessarily saintly men overly concerned about the welfare of their fellow men. What they were in fact were mainly immigrants from Europe scrabbling to survive and make their way in an often hostile terrain. It’s equally untrue however to suggest that there was nothing noble about the Pioneer Spirit which is celebrated in so many traditional Westerns.
I revisited the landmark Kevin Brownlow series HOLLYWOOD recently. This 1980 mini-series about the early days of cinema had a brief segment about the
fairly unsuccessful bandit Al Jennings, who after seeing THE GREAT TRAIN ROBBERY in 1904, decided to try his hand at movie business himself. Jennings
was evidently a fantasist and an inveterate self-promoter but the three Westerns
he produced (rather than simply appearing in as an actor) although primitive by
today’s standards were gritty and authentic and showed the West as a potentially brutal place. No sign of any ” Happy Trails” here. According to Brownlow this is why Jennings’ pictures were ultimately unpopular. Cinema goers would tend to prefer the fantasy West of say Tom Mix.
There’s a message there somewhere …
It’s not really a western, but it’s close. VCI is releasing THE MISSOURI TRAVELER (1958) on DVD later this month. A chance to see Lee Marvin in a movie that’s been sort of hard to find.
It’s obvious from the above comments that spaghetti westerns are a divisive subject here. I guess I come down more with Nick Beal and John K., in that yes, many are cinematic junk food at absolute best but there are indeed some gems amidst the coal. I’m with Nick in ranking the DOLLARS trilogy with FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE at the top, followed by the bloated but often brilliant THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY (aside from that great opening scene with Van Cleef visiting the family, there is also the stunning “Ecstacy of Gold” finale, riveting in its synthesis of expressive acting, cinematography, editing and music). A FISTFUL OF DOLLARS is a solid effort but missing the flamboyant highs of the follow-ups. ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST is indeed some kind of masterpiece but it is a sloooooow burn.
Of the other worthy spaghettis, aside from the grim THE GREAT SILENCE (fully agree with Richard on this one, the ending ruins it for me), I also rate DEATH RIDES A HORSE, THE BIG GUNDOWN, COMPANEROS, KEOMA and a handful of others as well worth the time.
We ain’t never going to agree on these clearly divisive films but that makes for some fine discussion and another fun ride. It also shows the passion we western fans of all persuasions feel.
” …However, the present-day deconstruction of the male hero and the ridiculing of the western — a studio policy — has been far more destructive. And it continues with films like WILD WILD WEST, THE MISSING, 8 MILLION WAYS TO DIE and THE HOMESMAN, as well as in TV programs like DEADWOOD and COMANCHE MOON. These titles are agenda-driven…..”
That’s a really, really interesting comment. I wonder what that agenda might be?
Class Wars………….
To backtrack even further,I thought I would take issue with
Nick Beal on his citing of the whipping scene in COW COUNTRY
as being gratuitous;simplistic even.
To me this is a very powerful scene as Peggie Castle literally flays
a now grounded Robert Lowery.As her lash cuts further into him she
is breaking ties with a future she now will never have,her ambitions
of raising above her class are now broken dreams.
The whipping represents a breaking of ties as well as “hell hath no
fury” elements.
Furthermore hero Edmond O Brien ends up with the less interesting,
even wimpy Helen Westcott.
Before I go any further I might add that I know Nick Beal and I have
never encountered anyone with such a knowledge of Film Noir.
His tastes are far more wide ranging than mine,especially his knowledge
of French Noir and Pre-Code.
We agree on lots of stuff but also have vastly different opinions on
others.We both have a passion for delving even further into the
works of very unheralded directors like Lambert Hillyer and Louis
King.
Recently Nick turned me onto a couple of Brit Flicks,recently released
by Network that were way off my radar.
Both,like many post war Britflicks have “class” as a major issue.
The first THE INTRUDER,which I was aware of is an excellent
study of post war class issues.I never knew how good this film was.
It’s both complex and ironic as Michael Medwin’s working class war
hero becomes a hunted fugitive while Dennis Price’s upper class
coward becomes a successful businessman.
Even better is SILENT DUST which I have never heard of.
I always,wrongly assumed that it was some stuffy colonial drama…..
far from it. In this film self made man Stephen Murray upsets the
local gentry by insisting a war memorial is created in memory
of his son,who it transpires was a total rotter!
Where is all of this going,you may ask.
Well most of us know that Brit Flicks are obsessed with class but
certainly not American Westerns.
that’s not always the case I might add.
In Boetticher’s fine HORIZONS WEST Robert Ryan is reminded by
slimy Raymond Burr that he’s dealing with people above his class.
Ryan,naturally decides to do some empire building of his own.
Blake Lucas and I have different opinions on THESE THOUSAND
HILLS. While I find the film interesting and very well made I have
problems with the moral ambiguity of the whole thing.
Prostitute Lee Remick bankrolls cowboy Don Murray to raise above
his class in the Old West.Remick ends up having her face smashed in
and on a murder rap; while Murray goes off with “decent gal” Patricia
Owens…I don’t like that…sorry Blake!
I.m doing this as a two-parter,Luddite that I am as I have a habit
of losing “epic” posts.
Thanks Toby for keeping this thread open and allowing all the
interesting and varied comments.
Class Wars 2……….
I thought I’d delve into this “class” thing because I watched Phil
Karlson’s very fine BLACK GOLD last night.
I am slowly going through the latest wave of Westerns from
Warner Archive.
BLACK GOLD is not a Western but it has Western elements especially
in the opening scenes.
What I found interesting were the “social” aspects of the film.
I liked the way somewhat poor Native American couple Anthony
Quinn and Katherine DeMille are elevated into mainstream
white society when oil is discovered on their land.
The film does flirt with racism and indeed mean spirited aspects,but
there is also decency and humanity there as well.
What I liked about the film is that it does not preach it makes its
points in a subtle way.
Quinn is excellent he comes across as decent if a little simple-
minded and trusting. It’s a very good performance a far cry from his
OTT antics in say RIDE VAQUERO!
I would say it’s one of the actors best “ethnic” roles.
The Cinecolor on the Warner Archive release is lovely I might add.
I understand BLACK GOLD was Quinn’s first leading role.
True stardom was still quiet a way off;five years later he again worked
with Karlson,forth billed and playing the heavy in the handsome looking
costumer THE BRIGAND.
I liked the social themes in BLACK GOLD and it covers territory
rarely encountered in American cinema.
Another film with a similar theme is Joseph Pevney’s highly regarded
FOXFIRE which I would love to see.
Why that film has never been given a DVD release is beyond me,
it’s not as if it lacks star power!
One thing this thread has proved,above all is that as Western
fans we have tastes that vary vastly and that’s how it should be.
The Spaghetti thing always blows things wide open here and I guess
always will.
My own take is if these things have an American lead that I like I will
run with it.
My favorites are THE BIG GUNDOWN,DEATH RIDES A HORSE
(huge Lee Van Cleef fan) and A MINUTE TO LIVE,A SECOND TO PRAY
Would love a Blu-Ray of the latter which must surely be on Kino-Lorber’s
schedule. Of course that film was greatly enhanced by Robert Ryan’s and
Arthur Kennedy’s involvement.
I am very interested in seeing FIND A PLACE TO DIE get a release
which I certainly enjoyed in cinemas at the time.
This one starred Jeff Hunter,who I always liked in Westerns and Hugo
Fregonese had some sort of involvement.
Also looking forward to a future Warner Archive release of MURIETTA
(aka VENDETTA) directed by George Sherman staring Hunter and
Kennedy. That’s about it really as far as my “wants” list goes.
Someone has promised to send me a copy of APACHE’S LAST
BATTLE (aka Old Surehand) a “Winnetou” film with Lex Barker and
Guy Madison both of whom I really like in Westerns.
Again that one has a good director.Hugo Fregonese.
Interesting all this put-down of Eastwood ;this seems to be a constant
thing with Americans who consider TOMBSTONE some sort of
great Western. I’m a huge Eastwood fan both as a Western star and
a director. I don’t have to defend his reputation here and THE OUTLAW
JOSEY WALES is one of my top five Westerns.
My dislike of MAN OF THE WEST I have gone into before, so won’t go
over that again,except to say how we differ in our opinions of certain
films and Western stars.
It’s interesting how the very left leaning UK newspaper The Guardian
had it’s critic in a TV interview saying how bad a film AMERICAN
SNIPER was and how great THE HOMESMAN was.
I loved AMERICAN SNIPER and hated all the political fallout the film
attracted which was undeserved.
THE HOMESMAN starts with a scene where a still living baby is
dumped down a “privvy” sound effects and all, did we really need to
see that or in fact the film as well come to that!
Guardian readers get what they deserve!
It may not be update-to-date on biography and history, but TOMBSTONE (1993) is a significant western. I remember well how often it sold out and the enjoyment audiences took from it. People left the theater quoting Doc. Its impact in the USA was immediately felt in the actual place, Tombstone, and has been long-lasting. Since the release of the film, there has been a renaissance in tourism, in grassroots research and in publishing, in professional re-enactments, and the competition for collecting artifacts of the time and place has escalated into a multi-million dollar private-little-war. And so on. This renaissance was felt all over the American west’s historic places, not just in Tombstone. The film played for over a year in Arizona and still comes back occasionally. It made 100 times more money than the distributor projected. The political correctness of it annoys me, but there’s no denying it’s a crowd pleaser.
THE HOMESMAN starts with a scene where
a still living baby is dumped down a “privvy”
sound effects and all, did we really need to
see that or in fact the film as well come to that!
No. We didn’t. That’s the first of many things we didn’t need to see. Tommy Lee Jones has his mind in the gutter. He has to please the exclusive club of militant feminists in Bel Air, California who greenlight movies at the banking and guarantor level. They have thematic demands. So he snivels. He whines. He crawls. He dumbs down. He takes all the masculinity out of his characters and turns them into wusses to get the financing. If he shows one iota of nobility the completion bond is withdrawn and the money dries up over “creative differences.”
That’s interesting Richard-W. Do you have genuine insider knowledge of the business or is this simply inference based on the content of THE HOMESMAN
and modern attempts to revive the Western in general? Tommy Lee Jones is, I
think, on record as saying this picture is not a Western per se, but how could it be anything other? As we have discussed, the Frontier characters featured are shown as being either inadequate or mentally ill and the male lead is a coward and an alcoholic. It’s desperate, depressing stuff in a genre (particularly in the Fifties) could almost certainly be relied on to lift the spirit and how we need that today.
So how do you account for the existence of a show like LONGMIRE? OK it’s
a Western series set in the modern day but it undoubtedly exhibits all the best
qualities of the traditional Western. It’s not a stretch to imagine the Walt Longmire character being played by Joel McCrea rather than by the excellent
Robert Taylor ( yes, it’s a different Robert Taylor!). Then there’s HELL ON WHEELS a tough Western show based around the building of the transcontinental railroad. The lead character Cullen Bohannen (played by Anson Mount) is definitely no wuss and although this show, like LONGMIRE,
is blessed with dynamic female characters it’s very much a traditional Western
that perhaps has modest stylistic borrowings from the Spaghetti West.
I’ve always liked TOMBSTONE. It’s a picture that I’ll have to revisit. I don’t remember being bothered by any particularly intrusive political correctness
when I saw it last, unlike the ridiculous DANCES WITH WOLVES. Kostner’s WYATT EARP, which came out at the same time as TOMBSTONE, was also
a decent stab at retelling the legend and had the added bonus of having the
great Sam Elliott in the cast. Elliott, now in his Seventies and still in great shape, has recently turned in an electrifying performance as a ruthless Kentucky crime-boss in the final season of JUSTIFIED. Have any visitors to
this board checked this one out? Based on an Elmore Leonard story and more
of a hard-boiled crime show, it still has many of the trappings of the Western.
The last-ever episode features a climactic gun fight and Timothy Olyphant’s
US Marshall Raylan Givens is rarely seen without his stetson.
So the Western is arguably alive and well, it just needs a little seeking out.
Nick Beal: I haven’t seen LONGMIRE. I understand it’s a Canadian program, is that right? Traditional westerns still come out of Canada, occasionally, and I usually like what I see. I have the first season of HELL ON WHEELS and found it difficult to connect with but I plan to give it another try soon. I have season 1 and 2 of JUSTIFIED and thoroughly enjoy it. It takes place in Kentucky. Hardboiled crime in the Elmore Leonard tradition with stetsons on. It has many of the attributes of the western but it’s not a western, really. Timothy Olyphant is going to be a HUGE star.
To answer your personal question, my production experience began in live theater when I was a teenager and in regional television beginning in 1977 while still in college in NY and technical schools in CA. I’ve produced and directed, written scripts, edited my own films and worked on other people’s films. Today as I approach 60 I navigate through the independent film production world in Los Angeles and Arizona which means I spend a lot of time fund-raising and negotiating. The southwest is my stomping ground. I’m also an accredited historian and write academic history about the American west. And yourself?
Hi Richard. According to the IMDB LONGMIRE is shot in New Mexico. The first three seasons were made by A & E who cancelled the production but it’s now been picked up by Netflix and there’s a fourth season coming in the Autumn (or the Fall as you say Stateside). You also seem to be implying that the Western,and by implication the values of the traditional Western, is deliberately blocked for reasons which might broadly be described as ‘political
correctness’. This doesn’t really surprise me. Modern Hollywood seems to comprise of a ghastly collection of pious Left Wing imbeciles who are terrified of straying from the party line and if I see the saintly millionairess Angelina Jolie posing again with any more Third World kids then I will become permanently nauseous. The sanctimonious Jolie and her ilk need to be ‘roasted’ by Don Rickles or Dean Martin and where is Ward Bond when you need him? I thought that Ricky Gervais had a decent bash at deflating the pomposity of Hollywood when he MC’d the Oscars a few years back. He rightly succeeded in making the glittering audience rather uncomfortable and was thus eventually sacked.
In all the discussion about latter day Westerns that have made the grade, I’m
surprised that nobody has mentioned APPALOOSA (2008) starring and also directed by the excellent Ed Harris.This is a terrific Western which even survives the participation of an entirely miscast Renee Zellwegger!
Harris was also surprisingly effective as the iconic Lassiter in a really rather good TVM version of RIDERS OF THE PURPLE SAGE (1996). I think Harris has a real empathy for the genre and maybe he, like Costner, would make more Westerns given a more sympathetic Hollywood.
As for me Richard, I’m simply an aging Graphic Artist who has seen far to many movies ….
What a hoot, John! “Guardian readers get what they deserve” – our U.S. buddies probably will be in the dark but I enjoyed it. Very interesting points raised by you, both regarding class issues and your viewing of “Black Gold”. I’ve never seen it but think now I will try to get it.
Amidst all this intense inquiry into the Western past and present, I don’t think
it’s been mentioned that Twilight Time are releasing the excellent HOMBRE (1967) on BD next week .. A ‘must buy’ for me certainly ..
Twilight Time’s blu-ray of HOMBRE (1967) should arrive on Tuesday, May 12. Really looking forward to this hi-def restoration. Twilight Time has impeccable taste in westerns. They seem committed to releasing Martin Ritt’s films as well, not to mention Sam Peckinpah’s.
Well John, you have prompted me to comment on AMERICAN SNIPER and THE HOMESMAN. I haven’t seen either film but Sniper appears to have raised a lot of controversy, both for and against the film, whilst Homesman appears to be disliked by the majority of people who have seen it and make their opinions known here. I recently purchased the dvd of the latter movie but I won’t let the criticisms put me off from viewing it. We cannot let others views dissuade us from either individual films, genre or movies within parameters of a genre e.g. spaghetti westerns. This is why I take little notice of film critics. Recently, for instance, I saw the oscar nominated, highly acclaimed by critics, Grand Budapest Hotel and quite frankly I thought it was a load of rubbish. I will always watch a movie and consider its merits or otherwise by my own viewpoint.
Has anyone seen DJANGO KILLER PER ONRE (THE OUTLAW OF RED RIVER).The only reason I mention it on this blog is because it stars George Montgomery .It is available on DVD but only in Italian or VHS in English.
Yep! I have seen THE OUTLAW OF RED RIVER a real low point
for Montgomery and director Maurey Dexter.
George looks great in the film,that’s the only kind thing I can say
about it.
I must say I saw it as a 4×3 pan & scan,perhaps if I saw it in
widescreen I would raise my opinion a notch or two.
Another obscure “Euro” Western of the same vintage I would
love to track down is SUNSCHORCHED starring and directed by
Mark Stevens who I always like in Westerns
Richard–W, did you manage to find a copy of HELLFIRE ?
At Movies Unlimited, yes. I never ordered from them before. I’m still perusing their westerns inventory before I place an order. They have a lot. Thanks for letting me know about them.
On another topic, I wish the Roy Rogers catalog was in better shape. His 75-90 minutes westerns were cut down to 52-54 minutes for television broadcast in the 1950s. The musical numbers were often cut, as well as the exposition. It’s the cut versions that circulate on public domain DVD, for the most part, and they are poor analog transfers. His Trucolor films from 1948-50 suffer the most. Gene Autry’s catalog was taken better care of.
Let us know about the picture quality on the HELLFIRE DVD-R. Movies Unlimited sometimes sells DVD-Rs from manufacturers not known for having quality masters. I purchased HELL CANYON OUTLAWS from there a couple of years ago, and it was in rough shape. I believe it was produced by Sinister Cinema or some such outfit.
I was disappointed in the Hellfire DVD. The picture was tolerable, but the sound was weak. (Of course, it’s one of my all-time favorite films.)
The off-air copy I’ve had for years is much better.
In heaven, people have Hellfire on Blu-ray!
In heaven they have THE YELLOW TOMAHAWK in color,
in widescreen on Blu-Ray.
In hell they have the entire Vin Diesel collection to view.
Here on Planet Earth we can’t even get WINCHESTER ’73,
RIDE THE HIGH COUNTRY or THE LAST WAGON on Blu Ray.
But hey,Olive Films (who have now given up on the Republic stuff)
are gonna give us a Blu-Ray of THE THING WITH TWO HEADS.
Here’s a new thread someday when we’re all bored: what does your DVD shelf look like in heaven?
I’m disappointed in Olive for turning their back on Republic’s Trucolor films. I wrote to them and argued that if Trucolor is that unstable they could always press the films to DVD instead of blu-ray and fans would still buy it because they want the films. For example, Olive cancelled plans to release RIDE THE MAN DOWN (1952) which might be the most sophisticated western Republic ever made. I use “sophisticated” in a good, but not in a hoity-toity way. To my way of thinking it is Rod Cameron’s best film and Joseph Kane’s best film, too, if not one of the best westerns of the decade. Superb script. It was written by Luke Short, who as usual opens the film by dropping us in the middle of unfolding action. It benefits enormously from a noirish use of Trucolor. For an example of how a stabilized transfer could be had from a Trucolor element, I referred the folks at Olive Films to the Artisan / Republic DVD of BELLS OF CORONADO (1950), the only Trucolor film by Roy Rogers to be restored for DVD release. Although heavily interlaced, the color looks wonderful. But the folks at Olive don’t get it. They say the Trucolor process is too problematic, and that’s that. I wish some other company would step in. The are many westerns in Truecolor, Ansocolor and Cinecolor that haven’t found their way to DVD or blu-ray yet, including HELLFIRE.
My Republic Home Video VHS of RIDE THE MAN DOWN is beginning to look a little ragged.
Thanks for summing up my own feelings about “RIDE THE MAN DOWN” so perfectly, Richard. Wish I could express it so succinctly. One of my 5 top westerns.
Guess we are just going to have to wait and hope the proposed new German DVD is going to have an English sountrack, as promised, when it actually surfaces. It will be top of my shopping list if it does.
Mike Kuhns , the picture quality on HELLFIRE is not the best but as Toby said it is tolerable .I also purchased HELL CANYON OUTLAWS and the picture quality was terrible ,but it will do until a better one comes along ,if at all.
Glad you said so before I pulled the trigger. I’ll have to pass on it then. Will stick with my low-quality off-air recording until something better comes along. There’s plenty of other titles to buy from Movies Unlimited. Most transfers of HELLFIRE come from either the Republic VHS, which is long oop and very scarce, or the Westerns Channel broadcasts.
Very interested in the Blu of HOMBRE.
Did Richard Boone steal this film,or what!
Would liked to have seen a whole lot more of Cameron Mitchell
in this film,he’s reduced to more or less a bit part.
In an even smaller role is Larry Ward,so good in THE DAKOTAS.
My reservations regarding TOMBSTONE are that I’m not too keen
on Kurt Russell,not my ideal Earp casting. Val Kilmer all over the place
as Doc Holliday…James Griffith he ain’t.
Still at least it’s better than Costner’s film. SILVERADO proved beyond
all doubt Lawrence Kasdan had no idea how to make a Western.
Just when you think SILVERADO simply cannot get any worse
John Cleese turns up as a marshal …desperate stuff!
Hasn’t anyone on this blog seen CATTLE ANNIE AND LITTLE BRITCHES.
Just think, John — if you took every Val Kilmer movie and replaced him with James Griffith, wouldn’t we all be better off?
Doc Holliday is an engraved invitation of overact — it’s interesting to see who falls into that trap and who doesn’t.
Actually, John Cleese was one of the few things, maybe the only thing, I liked about Silverado.
I didn’t like anything about Silverado. It’s just that kind of movie that plays into a now common perception of Westerns that has nothing to do with what is so great about Westerns at their best, and especially in the 50s. It has a lot of action, none of it very meaningful, a lot of loud noise, and I don’t just mean gunfire, and all in a kind of cheery way and you just don’t care.
The same director’s Wyatt Earp was little better–it certainly is taken more seriously but to the point of playing in a heavy, labored, ponderous way and I don’t think that’s true of great Westerns (or even good ones) even by directors who fall into that in other films. I’m thinking especially of George Stevens and Shane–though characteristically deliberative in the way he always is, it moves and feels and looks just wonderful and for me at least has just the right tone and texture to be deeply affecting and to earn its classic status.
Tombstone came out near to Wyatt Earp (just before as I recall) and I will admit that I did enjoy it…once. Because though made with more flair than Wyatt Earp, it had little more reflectiveness than Silverado and was at least close to the usual excessiveness and stridency of action so characteristic of these later years. So it was always a Western I had no desire to see a second time.
Toby, that’s a good and insightful line about Doc Holliday and certainly true. Probably the flamboyance usually works to some extent no matter who is playing it because Wyatt Earp is always complementary, quieter and more reserved and generally less morally ambiguous (though Hour of the Gun for one troubled this very effectively). So, for example, Douglas and Lancaster were well-paired in the roles.
But it is certainly most effective to get a little nuance into Doc Holliday and not just turn it into some “Look Ma, I’m acting” fest. James Griffith was indeed wonderful and one of the best Docs ever, but I don’t think anything is ever going to compare to Victor Mature under John Ford’s direction–the only Doc with the soul of a poet.
Mature is a terrific Doc, with the”poet” part something nobody else ever seemed to try.
I’m really partial to Douglas’ take since it fit in so well with his usual intensity. He coupled the outbursts with periods of broody and it worked really well.
But Griffith’s Doc, with that strong “death wish,” made a huge impression on me — he really didn’t care if he lived or died.
With all of these, the “anchor” that comes from Earp has quite an impact on how well Doc comes off.
And since he’s come up a few times lately, I don’t see what others do in Kevin Costner. Maybe it’s just me, but he seems to absorb the energy of any scene that he’s in. Guess that makes him a black hole.
Doc Holliday always steals the Wyatt Earp movie. Regarding MY DARLING CLEMENTINE, the Doc role was written for John Carradine, Ford’s preferred choice, but Fox said no we want Victor Mature. Carradine would have been more suitable, I think, which is no criticism of Mature. MY DARLING CLEMENTINE remains my favorite Wyatt Earp movie. It’s all myth, but the film is a work of art. James Griffith surprised me in MASTERSON OF KANSAS. He’s so memorable I wish he had played the part again. I also like what Jason Robards does with the character in HOUR OF THE GUN.
Colin analyzed all the Earp movies over at Riding the HIgh Country. Check ’em out.
Regarding Costner, he loves westerns. I understand he wants to make westerns all the time, thought he would be making westerns regularly, but has trouble getting the financing. The years go by and he never manages to get another western off the ground. He had to put up all his own money to get OPEN RANGE made, and then the distributors burned him on the returns. I think westerns bring out the best in Costner, as they do most American actors. If he could explore the genre further I’m sure Costner would do interesting work and make some memorable films.
So agree on how special Mature was as Doc.
I periodically go back to SILVERADO, somehow hoping that it will turn out to be a better movie than I remembered, yet I’m always disappointed, except for Bruce Broughton’s theme music. I think it’s the music which keeps fooling me into taking another look at the movie.
As for Costner, some of his movies are problematic (once was enough for DANCES WITH WOLVES and ROBIN HOOD) but I love the guy. DRAFT DAY is playing in our hotel room tonight, LOL. Saw him in 3 new movies last year and enjoyed them all. My favorite Costner film might be his least-known baseball film, FOR LOVE OF THE GAME, which is aided immeasurably by its extensive use of Vin Scully calling the game which is used to frame the flashbacks.
Costner was originally a local guy from here in Orange County, went to Cal State Fullerton, and his first wife worked at Disneyland.
Best wishes,
Laura
I’m kinda with Laura on Costner. Maybe just knowing the guy loves westerns colours my feelings about him. And I liked “OPEN RANGE” a lot as a western plus the fact that Costner made the film and then placed himself secondary to Robert Duvall in it.
Another actor who loves westerns and wishes he had not come along too late for them is Tom Selleck.
I didn’t mind Tombstone, in fact, I still quite like it. Sure it’s not up to the standards of the classic westerns, and it has its faults, but it is entertaining and has some good performances. It’s style over substance but there’s heart there too amid some of its excesses.
Wyatt Earp is far too earnest and self-important, and it bored me last time I saw it.
Costner is a guy I can take or leave – I thought he was OK in Open Range and No Way Out, and I enjoyed aspects of Revenge. Much of the rest of his work does little for me though.
I have a poor quality DVD-R of CATTLE ANNIE AND LITTLE BRITCHES (1981). It has much to recommend it, actually. Usually Rod Steiger and Burt Lancaster played the opposite roles. One of the many things I love about Diane Lane is her respect for, and participation in, westerns. She hasn’t made that many, but she once said that whenever a good western is offered to her, she says yes. There must be some rights issue keeping CATTLE ANNIE out of circulation or maybe it’s just Universal’s indifference to their back catalog. There’s a region 2 DVD in France under the title BILL DOOLIN. I may get that after I’ve caught up with all the recent 1950s releases.
Richard–W ,I notice there is a Spanish copy of CATTLE ANNIE AND LITTLE BRITCHES which you may want to check out that may or may not have forced sub titles .I am guessing that the subs are removable .I don’t know what the quality is like but I am thinking of purchasing it myself .
Do you know if this is a comedy western. If so then I will give it a miss ,but the bits that I’ve seen on U TUBE look ok .
CATTLE ANNIE AND LITTLE BRITCHES is an entertaining western as long as you go in realizing it’s in the serio-comic vein, closer to BUTCH CASSIDY AND THE SUNDANCE KID than SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL SHERIFF. The cast is good.
I have the French DVD from Sidonis Calysta, referenced by Richard-W, and I’m quite satisfied with it. Oddly enough, the back of the DVD jacket AND the product description on Amazon say the presentation is 1.33 ratio, 4/3 video format, but the DVD is 16 x 9 enhanced widescreen. Picture quality is good. It does feature the original English soundtrack; however, the French subtitles are not removable.
It has a catchy theme song which plays over the opening credits—not Frankie Laine but reminiscent.
Received an email from ImportCD’s about their westerns sale:
http://www.importcds.com/westerns-on-sale/b138218?utm_source=WhatCounts&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=IMP176&utm_content=%5B%5BUTM_CONTENT%5D%5D
Mike,
I certainly liked CATTLE ANNIE AND LITTLE BRITCHES a lot more
than “Sundance” It has light hearted moments to be sure,but it’s
also gritty and realistic. The Sidonis version is fine but you need to
know someone who can de-subtitle it.
I hated the soundtrack on “Cassidy” or more to the point that
terrible song but loved the folk/bluegrass soundtrack on
CATTLE ANNIE AND LITTLE BRITCHES.
Bluegrass (not to mention rock and jazz) fiddle great Richard Greene
is on the soundtrack as are Mary McCaslin & Jim Ringer,then the
hottest act on the American folk circuit.
McCaslin’s albums of Western songs (mostly self composed) are
simply sensational.For my money McCaslin is right up there with
the great Western singer songwriters:Marty Robbins,Ian Tyson,
Tom Russell.
One of Costner’s finest performances was in Eastwood’s sadly
overlooked A PERFECT WORLD.It will be interesting what roles he
plays in the future now his star power has faded somewhat.
He’s always been a bit of a risk taker which I like.
I also feel that he’s one of those stars that has got a lot better
as he has aged.
The aforementioned Kurt Russell has not one,but two Westerns
in the can.
Firstly there is BONE TOMAHAWK which looks like a combo of
Western and horror genres. (BEAST OF HOLLOW MOUNTAIN,
CURSE OF THE UNDEAD) This one has cowboys saving folks
from cannibalistic cave dwellers. A most interesting cast of has beens
in minor roles I might add.
Then we have Tarantino’s THE HATEFUL EIGHT.
The plot sounds like an old RegalScope flick,though I’m sure it
won’t be.Samuel L Jackson plays Major Marquis Warren (a homage
to RegalScope I wonder). Furthermore the film is shot in what the
poster says is “Super” CinemaSciope or in fact Ultra Panavision 70.(2.75)
I must admit the screen-shots look rather impressive,almost like a
$45 Million RegalScope film…….I wonder.
As I name dropped CURSE OF THE UNDEAD I was most interested
to read Blake’s take on THE LEECH WOMAN *(also directed by
Edward Dein) over at Kristina’s
I never knew this type of fare was on Blake’s radar and I must say
that I was surprised as well as being very impressed with his take
on the film.
Always great to hear someone championing those Universal
Fifties Sci-Fi Horror flicks that some of us love so much.
“Always great to hear someone championing those Universal
Fifties Sci-Fi Horror flicks that some of us love so much.”
If you can find a copy of THE SCIENCE FICTION FILM READER (ed. Gregg Rickman) you can read my piece “U-I Sci-Fi: Studio Aesthetics and 1950s Metaphysics” which is a very substantial overview and one I’m proud of–and you’ll see was written with great affection. My wife likes it best of all my published pieces.
I think there are various “rights” issues regarding CATTLE ANNIE AND
LITTLE BRITCHES. As Maltin correctly says the film was “thrown away”
by Universal at the time of it’s release. I think Hemdale had some
sort of involvement and distributed the film in the UK.
The French Sidonis DVD has a Warner Bros loge so they may have
distributed the film in France.
Gcwe1 I simply hate comedy Westerns and avoid them like the plague.
I only have two comedy films in my entire collection ABBOTT AND
COSTELLO MEET FRANKENSTEIN and SULLIVAN’s TRAVELS.
I like the latter film because it has really dark elements,chain gangs and
stuff,plus of course it’s one of the greatest films ever made.
My friends are always telling me I should “lighten up” a bit but I have
always been attracted to dark themed films…..that’s the doggone way
I am.
I must admit that I was very impressed,years back when Tarantino had
a season of his fave films at London’s National Film Theatre.
They included A & C MEET FRANKENSTEIN and WINCHESTER’73
Q.T. introduced them wearing a Sun Records T Shirt,I’ve always
rather liked him after that. My own peer group (old fogies) loathe
him but I’m rather drawn to the sheer audacity in his movies.
I may have to investigate further but I feel the Spanish DVD of
“Cattle Annie” may be a bootleg of the French DVD.
There in a ton of bootleg clones of mostly Blu-Rays in Spain, mainly
sourced from the likes of Twilight Time,Olive and Kino Lorber.
You can bet most titles from those imprints will turn up in Spain as
“bootlegs” or BD/r versions.
They have cloned several Sidonis titles and of course they are
free of “forced subtitles. There are obviously copyright laws in
Spain that let them get away with this. I might add that there are
several Spanish imprints doing this and they tend to stay clear of the
major studios Warners,Universal.who still actually release films from
their own catalog.
DVD Beaver have gone into this in great detail and the screencaps
they produce on their site as comparisons show the Spanish
versions to be exact clones of the originals.
While I am in no way championing bootlegging I must admit,in future
if there is a Sidonis title that I am after I will wait for the Spanish
bootleg to appear as those subtitles are such a drag.
I have spoken to other collectors who are all for it as those Spanish
“clones” are really cheap,especially considering the huge amount of
desirable films now appearing on DVD and Blu-Ray.
It would be great if THE HATEFUL 8’s release brought about a DVD release of Charles Marquis Warren’s Regalscope RIDE A VIOLENT MILE. Maybe Olive will yet license some more from Paramount.
That’s funny because someone sent me an “unwatchable” version
of RIDE A VIOLENT MILE last week awful quality and a pan & scan
to boot!
It did look,however like a much better film than I remember.
The more I think of John Carradine as Doc Holliday,the more I
think that was the role he was born to play.
In his prime there was always something “dangerous” about Carradine,
what an edgy Doc he would have made.
That’s the greatest “what would have been” casting I ever heard,apart
from Joel McCrea being too ill,at the time, to do KING KONG.
McCrea would have “humanized” the humans in that film.
But in a way, Carradine had already played it in STAGECOACH, as was plainly a variation on the character with different name and beautifully done. For that reason, and also because he is so wonderful in the role, I’m glad that it’s Victor Mature in CLEMENTINE–it doesn’t matter who Ford’s first choice was (it would always be someone from his stock company, I’m guessing). It’s how he works with whoever is there. He wanted Maureen O’Hara for MOGAMBO–any complaints about Ava Gardner? I think it’s her finest hour and Ford plainly warmed up to her.
BTW I’m second to no one in my love for and admiration of John Carradine,
Following on from the news that THE HATEFUL EIGHT and BONE TOMAHAWK are due to be released soon, there are several other westerns that will appear in cinemas within the next year. IN A VALLEY OF VIOLENCE is a revenge western set in the 1890s and stars Ethan Hawke and John Travolta, where a man arrives in a small town seeking vengeance for his murdered friend.JANE GOT A GUN starring Natalie Portman and Ewan McGregor tells the story of a woman who asks her ex-lover for help in order to save her husband from his old gang who are out to kill him.This movie has been fraught with production difficulties. The original director fell out with the production company, failed to turn up on the first day of filming and dropped the project. The company afterwards threatened to sue her. Michael Fassbender and Jude Law who were due to feature also dropped out. The movie is now being directed by Gavin O’ Connor and is back on track.THE REVENANT is a frontier film set in the 1820s and stars Leonardo Dicaprio and Tom Hardy and is another vengeance western. Finally WESTERN RELIGION is a low budget western with no big stars. It is set in 1879 and revolves around a poker tournament competition in a mining town called Religion. Recently released THE HOMESMAN and THE SALVATION proves that the western in not yet dead.
I’ve never seen HIDDEN GUNS (1956). It’s available from Alpha, but I avoid their DVDs unless someone vouches for the picture quality—most of their releases are horrible. I mention it only because it features John Carradine as a hired gunslinger, and at the same time in his career when he was appearing in THE BLACK SLEEP with Tor Johnson, Bela Lugosi, Basil Rathbone and Lon Chaney Jr.
You never know about Alpha. Their transfers never rise above analog quality, but sometimes it’s good analog quality, other times, not. The only way to find out is to take a risk. Their DVD’s are cheap enough. I did a little asking around and found out that the same individual private film collectors supply Grapevine Video, Sinister Cinema and Alpha, with Grapevine doing the majority of the sourcing. Of course, they all specialize in scarce, unrestored films that the studios don’t care about. They seem to put more effort into early B westerns than anyone else. The advantage of Alpha is that they press DVD’s instead of DVD-R’s. DVD’s are better quality. Now that you mention HIDDEN GUNS I think I’ll take a risk on it.
Regarding THE HATEFUL 8, which old time movies are the source for Tarantino’s story this time? I don’t follow his career.
The lone comment on the Amazon.uk page for the Alpha HIDDEN GUNS says it’s not bad quality as long as you aren’t too demanding.
Regarding HIDDEN GUNS ,Amazon lists the running time at 90mins ,Oldies.com 60mins and IMDB 66mins .Who’s right???!!
I’m guessing it’s one of the shorter times, but I really don’t know. Phil Hardy’s book THE WESTERNS (1983) says 66 minutes.
I’d be surprised if 66 minutes were not the correct running time for HIDDEN GUNS. Which reminds me, oftentimes B movies benefit from a short running time. At an Academy screening of HONDO 3-D, Leonard Maltin remarked that the film was satisfying as both entertainment and drama in only 80 minutes and a chuckle spread through the audience. The Ranown films are perfect at an average of 75 minutes or less. With a short running time there’s no room for unnecessary padding. The story is honed down to its essentials.
Ron Hills: thanks for that list of forthcoming westerns. Somehow, the subject matter doesn’t thrill me in any of them. Cannibalism? I’ll pass. But I’ll give the others a look-see. I believe in supporting the western at the box-office or at the rental place.
THE SALVATION (2014) is one of several recent European westerns to be set in American’s western frontier but shot in Cape Town and Johannesburg, South Africa. Yes, South Africa is the new Almeria, Spain. The town set is situated in a broad valley surrounded by hills. The buildings are too small. I mean really, really small. Sometimes a character enters a small building, and then cut to the interior which must be a set somewhere else, because it’s huge. The interiors are bigger than the exteriors. I had high hopes for THE SALVATION but it turned out to be another mindless revenge film, numbing in its nihilism. A spaghetti western shot in South Africa. IN EINEM WILDEN LAND (2013), a pilot made for German TV, is brighter and more hopeful, a feminist tale of female immigrants on the Gulf Coast of Texas turning to noble savages because their white men are good for nothing. There are many interesting aspects to the film, the polite and overdressed Comanches and Kiowas notwithstanding. It hasn’t had an English-friendly release yet.
I was blown away by DARK VALLEY (2014). This Dutch film is a work of art. It’s another revenge tale, but it’s also a seriously good drama with believable characters and down-to-earth motivations atmospherically filmed high up in the snowy mountains. It’s about a young photographer from the American west journeying to the mountains of Europe to seek revenge. Think of it as revision of the Spanish film THE GREAT SILENCE. All the bent nails in THE GREAT SILENCE get straightened out in DARK VALLEY. Much of it unfolds without dialog. There are no wasted words, and every camera shot is perfectly composed. The domestic DVD is fine, but it’s so artfully filmed I’m trying to get the region B blu-ray. None of these films could get a theatrical release in the USA.
[img]http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a432/Richard–W/InaWildLand-small_zps934a1174.jpg[/img]
hide that link or delete it would you please, Toby.
Victor Mature acted the part of Doc Holliday really well in My DARLING Clementine, not my favorite Ford western, I may add. However there was one fault, that Mature could not, unfortunately hide from the audience. Holliday was suffering from TB and although his acting suitably showed this, his physique could not . Mature was a naturally heavily muscular man, known back then as a “beefcake” actor.John Carradine was a thinly built man with a pronounced bone structure, so to me, would have been the better fit for the character.
According to the book JOHN FORD HOLLYWOOD’S OLD MASTER Darryl Zanuck considered Douglas Fairbanks Jr and Mark Stevens for the part of Doc Holliday . Jeanne Crain had been announced for the title role but was eliminated when Zanuck decided the part was too small for a star of her current popularity .Ford said he wasn’t concerned who played Clementine “providing she doesn’t look like an actress”.
Yes, I’ve read that in other books.
Good points, Ron Hills.
According to other books and at least one commentary, Ford wanted John Carradine, who was a member of his stock company and had appeared in several of his films. In STAGECOACH (1939) Carradine played a southern gentleman and gambler named Hatfield who is very much like Doc Holliday. Carradine’s role in that film provides a glimpse of how Doc would have been played if Zanuck had permitted the casting. I hate to be a spoil sport, but as much as I love MY DARLING CLEMENTINE, I can’t watch it without thinking how much better it would if Carradine had played the part. He was more suited to the tone and temper of the ensemble cast than Mature.
There now, I’ve talked myself into watching it this evening.
When you do, I hope you can put some of this out of your mind and just see how it works as it is. I say this as someone who weighed in on it earlier at 1:39, including noting Carradine’s part in STAGECOACH and my own great fondness for that marvelous actor.
There are always a lot of choices and possibilities for casting and every aspect of a movie and again, I think it’s how the director works with what is there that counts most in what happens with the realized film.
Two other points I would make:
Yes, Victor Mature was “a naturally heavily muscular man” as Ron said, but he doesn’t especially come over that way in CLEMENTINE–it’s played up much more in other of his films, while his effectiveness with the cough along with other things he does in the way he looks get over that he is sick. The film doesn’t say how far along in tuberculosis he is or even that is what it is, even if we naturally presume this both from history and from internal evidence.
Doc was a dentist, not a doctor, and he didn’t die at the O.K. Corral. In recent threads, including this one, the word “realism”–which can mean many things in a work of art–is thrown around as if a movie owes some specific thing to this abstract concept, and the same with history. But CLEMENTINE is far from the most historically accurate story of Wyatt, Doc, and Tombstone, as if we could even say definitively what that would look like. Yet if a vote were taken here as to the best Wyatt Earp movie, I’m betting CLEMENTINE would win in a walk.
So not to go too far into this now, but how things and people are represented in movies is something we owe some sophistication to–I feel the same way in complaints about the ages of Stewart and Wayne for LIBERTY VALANCE or Gary Cooper in MAN OF THE WEST. What actors would have played those roles with more authority? Who else would you want to play those characters?
It is all a question of willing suspension of disbelief.
***
My only personal concern about CLEMENTINE, and it is not so great in the end, is that the preview version–closer to the way Ford wanted it–definitely has the edge over the release version. There’s only five minutes difference and the differences are subtle but very meaningful. Being around enough to see UCLA’s nitrate print (which was awesome) a number of times over the years at the same time I was seeing the release version, I became aware of these differences and wrote them a two page letter about it and it was after this that they preserved that preview version, now available on any edition you are likely to get. I strongly recommend that CLEMENTINE fans check it out.
Hmm. Thoughtful post, Blake Lucas. The points you raise above and in 1:39 occurred to me. Wish I’d seen the nitrate print projected. I agree with you about the preview version. I love MY DARLING CLEMENTINE in both versions and I’m glad we have both versions. I’ve watched it more times than I can count. I’m buying the Masters of Cinema edition from the U.K. because it has a few additional supplements my Criterion and Fox editions don’t have, and because it’s the only way to see FRONTIER MARSHAL (1939) in hi-def.
I wish Warner Brothers Home Video would release a hi-def transfer of their STAGECOACH (1939) print. The DVD suggests they have a better print than Criterion does, but only Criterion has released a hi-def transfer, and from a different source print.
Much interesting stuff surfacing here.
I was most interested that Mark Stevens was considered for
playing Doc Holliday. That would have really worked especially
considering the intensity Stevens brought to his Western roles.
I agree Mature did reflect the “poet’s soul” possibly better than
many actors,but also agree that for me at least he was a tad too
burly to play Holliday;having said all that he is wonderful in the film.
To imagine Stevens as Holliday check out Stevens in JACK SLADE a
marvellous “lost” Western. JACK SLADE,which has been discussed here
many times before is one of the best of all Fifties Westerns.
The emotional violence in the film is overwhelming.
Had the film been directed by say, Sam Fuller or Joseph H Lewis,
it would be regarded as a masterpiece.
Sadly the film was directed by the very unheralded and totally ignored
Harold Schuster.
The boutique imprints like Eureka and Arrow in the UK,which do good
work are totally “cult” driven,the likes of Schuster are a million miles
off their radar.
That’s not to say Schuster did not direct other fine films,the
only one that’s easy to source is LOOPHOLE a wonderful little Noir
with Barry Sullivan and Charles McGraw on blistering form.
The recent Warner Archive release is a beautiful widescreen
transfer.
A whole chunk of Schuster’s best films are in the Allied Artists
titles not owned by Warners,sadly including JACK SLADE.
Other goodies include PORT OF HELL,FINGER MAN,RETURN OF
JACK SLADE and DRAGOON WELLS MASSACRE.
I have no doubt Film Jewels in Germany will eventually release
JACK SLADE and if that one is in German only I am going to be
very very annoyed.
Ron,thanks for the info on other Westerns in production.
THE REVENANT seems to be a re-make of the Richard Harris
vehicle MAN IN THE WILDERNESS but with a $60 Million budget
Hello John K. That’s right ! Mark Stevens aurait été parfait pour jouer Doc Holliday . Quant à ” Jack Slade”, il en fut , selon Brian Garfield et William K. Everson, le co-réalisateur non crédité, ce western est un ovni dans le genre et ne ressemble, par sa violence ,sa noirceur à aucun autre western des années 50, il est navrant de le voir quasiment absent dans les ouvrages sur le genre, sûr s’il avait été signé Fuller ou Joseph H. Lewis, il en serait autrement. Mark Stevens avait de multiples talents, ” cry vengeance”, ” timetable”, “gun fever”, sont des films , correctement réalisés et interprétés, malgré des budgets réduits et il y a plein d’idées dans ” gun fever”, le plus cheap des trois.